Bitcoiners Debate Mark Cuban
Crypto News

Bitcoiners Debate Mark Cuban

9 months ago

Famed Billionaire Mark Cuban takes on a group of Bitcoiners in a thoroughly engaging debate on Twitter Spaces, defending his views on Dogecoin and sharing his thoughts on Bitcoin's future.

Bitcoiners Debate Mark Cuban

Зміст

On Sunday night, October 17, Crypto Twitter was in for a treat: a group of Bitcoiners set up an impromptu Twitter Spaces conversation with the famed shark Mark Cuban. Given Cuban’s more public affinities towards networks like Dogecoin and Ethereum, it seemed like the conversation quickly turned into a debate: Bitcoin vs Mark Cuban et al.

The group of Bitcoiners included Preston Pysh, Peter McCormack, Anthony Pompliano, Dennis Porter and Rob Hamilton. The group consisted purely of Bitcoin maximalists — a Bitcoin maxi is one who believes all other digital currencies are inferior to Bitcoin — I honestly don’t say this disparagingly, but I state this fact for context, assuming that almost everyone in the group proudly identifies as one.

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On Bitcoin as a Store of Value

Bitcoiners and Mark Cuban

  • A: Bitcoin is the best store of value on the planet. Of course it’s better than gold.

On $DOGE vs $BTC?

Bitcoiners:

  • Q: Why do you promote something, like $DOGE, that goes against the ethos of decentralization? Why not promote $BTC?

Mark Cuban:

  • A: For a normie, buying $DOGE is much easier than doing the full-dive into $BTC. Dogecoin is easy, it’s not trying to solve some big complex problem. It’s incredibly easy to spend. $DOGE is an inexpensive way to learn crypto and learn how crypto transacts. As somebody who has been selling things for crypto, nobody spends Bitcoin. Why? Because it’s a store of value!

Bitcoiners:

  • Q: You said one of the problems that Bitcoin has is that no one wants to spend it, preferring to HODL, since they are worried it will go up in value beyond the asset they bought. Why do people buy $DOGE, because they think it’s stable?

Mark Cuban:

  • A: No! Because it’s fun! They’re part of a community, they have fun with it.

Bitcoiners:

  • Q: Don’t people just buy $DOGE with the same expectation that it will go up in value because they hear you talking about it on Ellen or Elon Musk hyping it on SNL.

Mark Cuban:

  • A: When you hear me talk about it, I say: it’s better than a lottery ticket, it’s a cheap way to learn crypto, people like to tweet and tik tok about it — it’s fun! Cheap price of admission and you can spend it at AMC or at a Mavs game.

Bitcoiners:

  • Q: We understand how Bitcoin has given people optionality — a chance to actually save, with patience, to increase the value of what they have. But whatever the level of inflation, it doesn’t really affect you — you’re not compelled to really care about this and I think that’s why you can have a bit of fun with Dogecoin and if people get rekt and lose all their money, it doesn’t really affect you. We see work on the ground being done where Bitcoin is enacting real change. You seem to be more interested in promoting scams and shitcoins, it’s sad.

Mark Cuban:

  • A: Go to markcuban.com — look at all the companies that I am investing and all of the entrepreneurs I work with. And then read a bit about my history. And you think this is all about me being rich and I can’t relate — fuck you. I’ve been so fucking broke I’ve had holes in my floor. I don’t need to go back there to understand the viewpoints you bring up.

Bitcoiners:

  • Q: Do you understand the difference between crypto and Bitcoin?

Mark Cuban:

  • A: I understand decentralization very well. You guys have made that point. What I also understand is how consumers buy and how businesses try to improve their productivity. Why would I do something with the Internet when I can just turn on the TV? Just like in the early days of the Internet, people would laugh at novel applications being built during that time, opting for television and everything that was should be on there. People will follow the path of the least resistance for the application they want to use.

On Bitcoin Lighting Network

Bitcoiners:

  • It’s misleading to say Bitcoin is only meant as a store of value. It’s used both as a store of value and a medium of transfer, thanks to Lightning Network. Settlement is done in 10 minutes. Fees are basically zero.

Mark Cuban:

  • A: Ethereum, Polygon, Optimistic Rollups, Solana etc — these networks compete with Lightning! All of these networks and the applications they continue to build out does not bode well for Bitcoin. Lightning Network is still nascent. When you make the singular comparison of Lightning Network to fiat, then it’s easy — not so much when you include the whole ecosystem.
    It’s difficult to onboard users organically to Lightning Network. Starting with dollars, converting to crypto, and paying a transaction without fees is NOT unique to Bitcoin.

On $BTC Becoming the Global Reserve Currency

Bitcoiners:

  • Q: What do you think needs to happen in order for Bitcoin to become the reserve global currency? If $BTC continues to be adopted on a global basis, say 3–4 billion people hold $BTC, is that a viable path to $BTC transforming into a medium of transfer as well as a store of value?

Mark Cuban:

  • A: Wishful thinking. If the Mavs make 100% of their shots, we’ll win championships.

On Bitcoin and El Salvador, China, USA

Bitcoiners:

  • C: Savings methods are relative. People in El Salvador might be faced with different circumstances to save — there is one guy I know of in El Zonte, gradually saved $BTC little by little and eventually saved enough to buy a cow. The reason they weren’t saving is because they didn’t have the technology available to do so and their own savings depreciate because of inflation, and now they have an opt-out with Bitcoin.

Mark Cuban:

  • A: Anecdotal stories aren’t representative of everything. You need to look at it on a more macro-basis.

Bitcoiners:

  • Q: In terms of a 51% attack, what do you think of a nation-state printing money (el Salvador can’t do this since they denominate in USD) and buying hashrate?

Mark Cuban:

  • A: It’s a viable path of attack. That nation-state goes and buys enough hashrate in order to threaten what they couldn’t buy. China made a mistake by kicking the miners out, they should have kept them in and kept control like they do with all the other technologies.

Bitcoiners:

  • Q: Should America embrace Bitcoin? Free market or should they do something about it?

Mark Cuban:

  • A: With Bitcoin, they don’t have to do anything, they just let it be. It’s just a store of value like gold. It’s just a digital transaction on a ledger somewhere. No one physically owns it.

Bitcoiners:

  • Q: You keep saying Bitcoin is a store of value, so how are you thinking about the remittance problem that has already been solved in El Salvador where swapping from fiat to $BTC back into whatever fiat they want to use is solved? The person doesn’t even know they are using Bitcoin.

Mark Cuban:

  • A: That’s just one application that El Salvador chose to use. That’s great! But it’s not like other platforms can’t do the same thing.

On Decentralization and Brownies

Bitcoiners:

  • C: Look at Solana. They went down a couple weeks ago and had to have a call with all of the node operators. We have solved the Byzantine Generals’ Problem. The idea that you have an elite class of people with special access to a network and they set the rules, no matter what other bells and whistles you put on top of that network, is a huge liability.

Mark Cuban:

  • A: Solana isn’t the best example. There are networks out there operating successfully. It doesn’t matter about decentralization — Mark immediately takes a step back from this statement, acknowledging he made a lot of the people in the call jump! Let’s take a step back: the consumers don’t pay attention to the intricacies… best summarized as don’t sell the recipe, sell the brownie. Consumers buy the brownies that work for them, they don’t think about the recipe at all. If enough people are buying different brownies and love those brownies, and those brownies aren’t as decentralized as you would like — they’re going to ignore that fact and keep buying those brownies. 

Bitcoiners:

  • Q: There are very specific applications where decentralization really matters and Bitcoin is the most decentralized and likely to continue to be even more decentralized over time. In all of the other use cases where decentralization isn’t the most important thing like with $BTC, everyone just wants the cheapest experience, the highest throughput?

Mark Cuban:

  • A: No, they just want the application that they want. And they are willing to accept a certain level of risk that Bitcoiners might not be willing to accept. Because it’s cheaper. There will be an application that is sold in a manner they want to consume it, and that gets the consumer to commit to the application.

On Ethereum

Bitcoiners:

  • Q: You seem to feel very confident on Ethereum and its future. As an investor, aren’t you worried about the Ethereum Foundation’s failure to deliver the transition to Proof of Stake?

Mark Cuban:

  • Q: Not really because they implemented EIP-1559 and there’s L2s now ready to pick up any slack. I agree that the transition is a risk. If they can’t solve the move, then I’m 100% wrong and I’ve been wrong before. 

Bitcoiners:

  • Q: You seem to feel very confident on Ethereum and its future. As an investor, aren’t you worried about the Ethereum Foundation’s failure to deliver the transition to Proof of Stake?

Mark Cuban:

  • Q: Not really because they implemented EIP-1559 and there’s L2s now ready to pick up any slack. I agree that the transition is a risk. If they can’t solve the move, then I’m 100% wrong and I’ve been wrong before.

Concluding Comments

Bitcoiners:

  • C: Thanks for coming on, Mark! My only gripe is stop talking about Dogecoin!

Mark Cuban:

  • A: Yeah you know, it’s a great introduction to cryptocurrency — I’ll keep on talking about it.

Bitcoiners:

  • A: No, no! Tell people to go start a full node.

Mark Cuban:

  • A: Yeah right, because that’s easy! 

Bitcoiners:

  • A: It is, my 8-year-old son put mine together.

Mark Cuban:

  • A: All right, well my 11-year-old is in Ethereum so we’re good.

What did you think of this impromptu debate? The above summarizes some of the high points, but there are definitely some more interesting points in the whole debate. If you want to listen to the whole conversation, it can be found on here: 

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